Posts Tagged ‘animal abuse’

My response to the thread A suggestion about Animal Abuse and Bestiality in the Fetlife Suggestion Box:

Bestiality is not a damn kink. It’s not a form of BDSM – any more than having sex with a child is. Period. An animal can no more give consent than a child can. Any bottom feeding piece of garbage that tries to fly under the “my kink is not your kink” flag for this issue needs to be prosecuted.

Very well said, @LuciferCat.  And then they ought to be strung up from the nearest tree or at least spend the rest of their lives behind bars where they can’t hurt anyone else, or any other helpless creatures.

Just because someone out there does something and gets off on it does not mean that the activity in question is a legitimate kink.

It is also very well documented that people who abuse animals often tend to go on to abuse people.  It turns out that this link is particularly strong when the animal abuse includes sexual abuse.

While the risk to the animal is most obvious with human males penetrating the animals, the risk from animals being sexual with women is also substantial, although for less obvious reasons.  Anyone who thinks that women having sex with animals is benign also needs to seriously rethink this.  It is clear that at least with dogs, an assortment of negative effects happen to the animals with this as well.

I’m also learning that people use all sorts of tactics to draw attention away from their disgusting habits of having sex with animals.  One of the recent ones I’ve heard is that a written fantasy involving sex with an animal is not the same thing as actual bestiality.  Very true – but when a person also writes that they are “into animals” in a group dedicated to discussing extreme and disgusting sexual preferences, particularly in the same sentence as a list of other sexual behaviors they documentably actually engage in, it is clearly flat out bullshit.  If it were a question of fantasy, or only a thought vs an actual practice, people will state that specifically, or that they are “curious about” it, particularly when they are clearly educated and articulate.

I’ve also seen people who have made such statements then show an interest in animal role play, possibly to distract attention from the issue at hand.  Nice try – but people who are into animal role play do not say that they are “into animals”.  They say they are into “puppy play”, or “human ponies”, or “animal role play” or the like.  The distinctions are obvious and unmistakable.

I’ve also seen people play other semantic games and claim that despite saying that they are “into animals” in a sexual context, that does not mean they are bestialists.  Sorry, but that also doesn’t hold water.  By definition, bestiality involves having sex with animals, or “being into” animals in a sexual manner.

With respect to the argument that eating meat or wearing fur or leather is the same thing as fucking animals, that also does not hold water.  Animals have been part of the human food chain since the beginning of time, and have always provided clothing for people.  That is part of the natural order of things.  If people choose not to eat meat or wear leather, that is their choice – but the evidence is also mounting that those who do not eat meat often end up malnourished because they tend to have difficulty getting enough protein in their diets.  Humans are omnivores.  We need animal protein in our diets.

There are also many, many uses for other parts of cows and other animals that are slaughtered for human food.  A recent article I read listed something like 30 different products that come from them.  I can’t find it at the moment, but will post it when I do, but a few can be found here in the meantime.  There are many, many more, and the products that result are so ubiquitous in our world that it is virtually impossible to avoid them.

Fucking animals – or having them fuck you or otherwise stimulate you sexually – is not the same thing at all.  If we were meant to do so, we would have body parts that match more closely, and we would be able to reproduce with them.  Neither is the case.

Man is the only animal that engages in sexual behavior because it feels good.  The rest do it solely out of instinct, as demonstrations of dominance and pack leadership, and for procreation.  Engaging in these behaviors for one’s own personal sexual gratification takes nonconsensual advantage of the animal and the person’s position of authority over the animal.  It is indeed nonconsensual and exploitative because animals are not capable of meaningful or informed consent – and even if the animal appears to be enjoying it, the animal’s mindset about what is happening is quite different from that of the person.

I don’t think people should tell anyone that their fantasies are wrong, sick or twisted.

There’s nothing wrong with fantasies, @JohnBaku (although I would argue that some indicate very deep mental disturbances, but that is beyond the scope of this post).  No one gets hurt when people fantasize.

What’s wrong is actually playing them out with creatures who are not capable of consent.  The moment people start talking about actually executing those fantasies, or discussing actually having acted on them, that is a whole different kettle of fish.  That’s when people (or animals) actually do get hurt.  And that is not OK in this universe or any other.

Especially people from this community… you know how it feels to be judged and fuck does it not feel good… so why judge others and make them feel like shit.

I’m so tired of this argument as a justification for every kind of sick behavior on the planet.  First of all, not all of us do have that experience of being judged negatively for our sexuality.

Second, and most importantly, just because most of us do have less mainstream tastes does not mean we no longer have morality or the ability to tell right from wrong, or to determine what is harmful to others.  Sane people do not check those values at the door to the dungeon – and they can tell the difference between what is exploitative and what is not.

Unfortunately, the whole “your kink is OK” thing has been taken to an extreme that people use to justify all kinds of horrific behaviors in the name of kink.  This really needs to come to an end, IMO.  Some things just are not OK, and I think it’s irresponsible to always turn a blind eye and the other cheek to people doing such abusive and exploitative things such as engaging in sexual activity with animals and children.

All of you have pictured yourself killing someone at some point or another. Road-rage, a teacher, a boss, someone who posted something online that really got your blood to boil, etc. And none of you went to jail for it… the day you do we are all fucked.

Again, there is a huge difference between fantasy and actually doing what we may “picture” ourselves doing.

Discussing bestiality in the abstract as we are doing here is not a crime, nor should it be.  People who talk about why and how they get off on engaging in sexual behavior with animals, and who use public fora to seek others who want to actually engage in these behaviors is in fact a serious problem, and should be prohibited.

More importantly, everyone here knows the difference between play & fantasy and crossing the line into reality. If that was not the case, I would close FetLife’s doors.. and NOW.

That is so patently untrue as to be laughable, @JohnBaku.  Apparently you don’t follow any of the threads or groups about abuse in the kink community.  That’s a whole topic unto itself – and the problem is clearly growing.  A great deal of the problem stems precisely from the fact that there are legions of people who don’t have the first clue about the difference between fantasy and reality, and who use BDSM as an excuse to perpetrate nonconsensual behavior on others.  I do hope you will not close Fetlife’s doors now that you’ve been brought up to date about reality in this regard.

my very first flag is why would a person obviously opposed to an activity enter into a group and read through threads knowing they were going to be offended.

Sarafina_MM, the threads in question were in groups that are dedicated to legitimate discussions of animals as pets.  Finding the discussions turning to bestiality and people discussing how-tos and posting personal ads looking for animals to abuse in this manner, and other bestialists to be part of their games was not expected there at all.  I saw the links before they were deleted.

There is nothing wrong with being a pedophile, so long as everything will and will always remain within the boundary of the mind or of a fantasy with a consenting adult.

Well, then, that is not pedophilia, @good_kitty.  It’s a fantasy, or role playing.  The dictionary is your friend.  It is when things cross the line from being in the mind of the person to engaging in actual behavior (including seeking out, saving, and/or disseminating related images) that the problem exists.

Or at least it’s not acting on pedophilic impulses, and it’s the taking things from fantasy to any form of actual action that is the problem.

Why do you believe that animals can’t give consent?

AeonMalleus, can animals hold a conversation?  Show that they understand what the person wants to do to them?  Agree – explicitly?  In so many words?  About every detail?

I mean, really, come on.

Why would you think a baby or child can’t give consent?  First, it’s obvious that they don’t have the same powers of communications or understanding as an adult.  Second, absent those abilities, people in authority are bound to protect them from harm.  Both animals and children must trust the people in authority over them, as we hold the power of life and death over them.

This is an adult site…there should be no children here…what would pedophiles want here? …If they are not here then why would it need addressed?

Serafina_MM, no, there aren’t likely any children here – but pedophiles are here not just because that may not be their only sexual interest, but because they troll for other members who have children or younger siblings of the ages in which they have an interest.  I’ve seen it happen.  If you know who some of these people are, you can watch them “make nice” to people who have the ability to put them in proximity to their desired victims.  But that is not an issue specific to Fetlife.

Wow! A bunch of folks who engage in practices deemed aberrant by 99.8% of the balance of the planet being all judgmental about other folks they label perverts!

Actually, @Sir_JMark, there is evidence that at least 40% of the population engages in or has an interest in some form of kink.  The difference is that not all of them identify it in so many words.  At the end of the day, what they are condemning stems more from their misunderstandings of what we do (and not recognizing their own proclivities by the same verbiage) than anything else.

Rebecca, it will be a tragedy if you leave and let dog fuckers win.

I totally agree.  We need people like Becca here.

I can attest to the fact that the caretakers don’t always do shit when photos and threads that violate the TOU in this respect are reported.  I’ve reported a number myself – and they are still visible on people’s profiles.  That doesn’t mean we should stop reporting them.

I also agree with those who question why to bother even having TOU or indeed, even the caretakers themselves, if enforcement is erratic, and is going to be this arbitrary.

I for one, refuse to be shamed about how I feel or what makes me wet.

NudeGirl, I don’t care what makes people wet to think about.  I do care when they act on those  attractions when doing so is exploitative of others and nonconsensual.

So, why do you (whoever you are) think that animals can’t consent? They consent to walks and wrestling and we know that by how they act.

By that argument, @AeonMalleus, people who are raped must consent to the rape oif they don’t fight back. Even children.  Which is total and complete bullshit.  In any event, walks and wrestling are part of normal behaviour with pets.  They need both walks and play.  Both are part of their natural repertoire – and neither one involves exploiting them in harmful ways for our own pleasure.

Where is the Fetlife server located again?

I’ve heard that they are actually in Dallas – which means that the laws of the US apply, and specifically Texas.  I can’t confirm that information about their location, though.

For those of you who advocate just turning a blind eye to bestiality and other forms of abuse, on the premise that it is not your business, I’d ask you to reconsider your stance.  If we are not our brothers’ keepers to the extent indicated by keeping people from harming others wherever possible, or at least speaking out openly against practices that we believe to be harmful and/or exploitative, then we have lost all sense of morality and human decency.

Hillel said it best: “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?” (Ethics of the Fathers, 1:14).  We must all be our brothers’ keepers to some extent.

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Animal Abuser Registry Proposed in CA

http://www.exposeanimalabusers.org/article.php?id=1274

This legislation would create a registry much like the Megan’s Law registries for people who abuse animals in any way, including sexually.  The url above includes many links to other sites addressing the issue.

Unfortunately, this particular bill failed to advance, but hopefully new legislation will be reintroduced this year and pass.  I’m generally not a big fan of governmental intervention in our lives, but given the harm that results to both people and animals from animal abuse (and sexual abuse in particular), I think legislation of this sort is critical.  Other posts and links on this blog address the nature of that harm and its repercussions.

We don’t tolerate sexual predators who prey on humans in our midst without a registry; we should not tolerate animal abusers, either, including bestialists, without exposing them for who they are, and ensuring that they are brought to justice.

I will be monitoring this issue and will post updates here on the blog as I become aware of them.  Please contact your legislators and voice your support for such a bill.  Believe me, they do actually listen when their constituents take the time to do so.  It is amazing how few people it really takes to get them to support bills that people support, especially when logical arguments, and factual data are included. A number of states already have such registries, and more are being put in place as time goes by.

We need to get people who abuse animals – including sexually – off the streets and put away where they belong, and a means of notifying everyone else about the nature of their crimes put into place.

I’ve included a number of links on this website to what research on the subject I am aware of, and will also continue to update that as I learn more.

If you don’t live in CA, please support bills of this nature in your own home state, and if none are in process, please approach your legislators and ask them to sponsor one.

Jan 18: Sex with horse results in man’s death.

A Seattle man died after engaging in anal sex with a horse at a farm suspected of being a gathering place for people seeking to have sex with livestock, police said.

The horse involved in the incident was not harmed, and an autopsy of the unnamed man concluded that “the manner of death was accidental, due to perforation of the colon”, a police spokesperson said.

“The information that we have is that people would find this place via chat rooms on the Web,” said Sergeant John Urquhart of the King County Sheriff’s department.

Although sex with animals is not illegal in Washington state, Urquhart said that investigators were looking into whether the farm, located in Enumclaw, 64km south-east of Seattle, allowed sex with smaller animals that resulted in animal cruelty, which is a crime.

There is no evidence that any money exchanged hands for the sex acts. There are several horses, bulls, dogs and other animals on the farm.

At this point no one has been arrested, but aurhorities are not ruling out the possibility of charges ultimately being filed.

At least one man with convictions for sex crimes is reportedly connected to the events at the farm.

The bizarre death of a man who had sex with a horse made dreadful headlines. But last summer’s infamous Enumclaw animal-intercourse investigation did not turn up a rural crime wave of bestiality, authorities say. State Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, however, plans to continue her push for a law barring such acts, worried the case revealed “an animal sex ring, a magnet for syndication of the sexual abuse of animals. People came from outside this state to engage in this activity because people knew they wouldn’t be arrested.”

Enumclaw Police and King County Sheriff’s investigators ultimately expended little time on the case after determining no felony laws were broken. There was no convincing evidence of animal cruelty, and bestiality is not a crime in Washington. Investigators concluded that only three men were present when a 45-year-old Seattle man was killed while having sex with a horse July 2 at one of two neighboring farms where such acts took place in southeast King County. And only one suspect, James Michael Tait, 54, has been charged with a crime, first-degree trespassing, a misdemeanor.

“The sheriff’s office did not find that any [felony] crimes had been committed,” says sheriff’s Sgt. John Urquhart. Thus, “we didn’t look too deeply into how many people had visited farm No. 1 [Tait’s property] or how big an operation it was.” Says Roach: “Right. What’s the purpose of investigating further if there’s no law against it? We’re one of eight states without one. Animals are left unprotected, and it is abuse of an animal to sexually assault it.” She suspects Internet chat has attracted out-of-state abusers, although all three men in the Enumclaw case were locals. “When you are dealing with the Internet,” Roach says, “you just have to assume it’s gone past state lines.”

Tait, a truck driver who lives near the Southeast 444th Street farm where the death occurred, pleaded not guilty and awaits trial in Burien District Court. The second farm’s owner was unaware the threesome had sneaked into his barn late at night, according to the King County Prosecutor’s Office. Urquhart of the sheriff’s office says that “typically,” men were having sex with a horse on Tait’s property, “but on this particular night it is my understanding that horse wasn’t particularly receptive.”

The man who died during the incident suffered a perforated colon after being penetrated by the neighbor’s horse, investigators say. He also owned a horse of his own, according to the Humane Society, which says it is trying to find a foster home for the animal. “Bestiality,” says local Humane Society director Robert Reder in a statement, “is an unsettling and uncomfortable topic.” Nonetheless, “The people who engage in this behavior are victimizing animals.”

According to charging papers, Tait told a sheriff’s deputy that he and the two other men “came to know each other as a result of their common interest in having sex with horses and other animals.” Tait and the man who later died both had sex with the neighbor’s horse that night, according to the charging papers. The second man died while Tait was videotaping the encounter. The tape was later shown to the couple that owns the barn so they could confirm it was their horse, known as Big Dick. Enumclaw Police turned up as many as 100 VHS videos and DVDs. But with no applicable bestiality or animal abuse laws to enforce, authorities never viewed the tapes, Urquhart says.

Roach is still drafting the bill to criminalize sex with animals, which she plans to introduce at the legislative session that begins in January. Her e-mail and phone calls are running universally in support of a ban, she says. The bill, as a draft shows, may include felony provisions against videotaping the acts. Though she considered adding an Internet provision, she admits any such ban would be difficult to police-in part because the Internet is already teeming with animal-porn sites, such as Zoo Porn, which offers “zoo dating.” Her draft bill reads: “A person may not knowingly engage in any sexual conduct or sexual contact with an animal,” nor knowingly “organize, promote, conduct, advertise, aid, or abet, participate in as an observer, or perform any service in the furtherance of an act involving sexual conduct or sexual contact with an animal for a commercial or recreational purpose.”

Still taboo, discussion of bestiality has been opened up by the freewheeling Internet, and other media as well. Recently, on the Alan Colmes Show on Fox Radio, the host asked radical antiabortionist Neal Horsley whether it was true he had sex with animals in the past. Horsley replied: “Absolutely. I was a fool. When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule.” If that surprises some people, he added, “Welcome to domestic life on the farm. You experiment with anything that moves when you are growing up sexually.”

Roach thinks animal abusers are often associated with child abuse, as well: “The studies people have sent me show how abusers develop by starting with something helpless, an animal; next is a child. These are patterns that develop.” But her final bill will have to be carefully written, she adds, to exclude some farm-sex acts. “For example, farmers, in a routine way, inseminate animals with sperm they buy from veterinarians,” the senator says. “That’s an act of [animal] husbandry-that’s different.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/5034/WA/US/

Bestiality is sexual abuse of animals.  People having sexual contact with animals for their own gratification, or using animals sexually to demean and injure others, is animal sexual abuse.

So what’s this got to do with a blog with a heavy focus on people abuse and kink?

A lot, actually.

I found out some information related to this topic a few months ago that has had me extremely worried.

I also really love animals in general – in a healthy way.  I’ve always had pets, who have always been cherished companions, and I take the responsibility to protect these creatures we bring into our lives seriously.  I’ve done animal rescue and other volunteer work in the past, both throughout the Bay Area, California, and nationally, and undoubtedly will again.  I make financial donations to support groups that engage in this work.

And of course, I have a strong, long-standing interest in the topic of abuse in general.

So, the topic has been on my mind for a while, and I finally realized I may as well use my blog to explore it.

One of the things I certainly can do is try to further understanding of this perversion, and the very real damage it does, both to the animals in question – and to the people involved, particularly if the animal is used as a tool to abuse her (usually a woman or child) with.  I can open the door to discussion to a) help people understand the extent of the problem and why it’s so bad, and b) give people who have been victimized this way in some manner a place to vent and share their feelings with other victims, if they so choose.  We aren’t allowed to even discuss what’s wrong with bestiality on Fetlife, so I’m opening up a platform for it here, as another aspect of abuse in general.  The role that bestiality plays in abuse in general and in BDSM – and why it has everything to do with the former and nothing at all to do with the latter – needs to be aired.

Sadly, there is a segment of the population who actually considers this to be a legitimate kink, and some even consider it a valid sexual orientation.  I am not going to go into all of the horrifying twaddle many of these people posit as justification for these horrifyingly skewed views.  I don’t care what their excuses are – bestiality is nonconsensual by definition, because animals lack the capacity to give consent.

It’s the same thing with children and child sexual abuse.  Both animals and children depend on adults to protect them, and having sex with them is one of the most flagrant violations of trust possible.

The fact that sex with animals cannot possibly be consensual lands it firmly in the camp of being abuse, plain and simple.  Sorry, but in these two areas, your kink is just not OK on any level, end of story.

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